looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

Re: looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

feeds@yuku.com (That Guy David) — Thu, 22 May 2008 12:07:19 GMT

> Miles of psuedo-intellectual circular rhetoric

Show me what's circular? No need to get mad at me if you can't back up your own point of view.

> He trashed his own medals in shame of his service

In shame of his service? i don't think so, the point was to protest the war, no? Even if you were right about that, it still doesn't get you to "nothing to do with serving his country."

Here's the simple observation...

Re: looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

feeds@yuku.com (52media) — Thu, 22 May 2008 12:02:37 GMT

The old man's lucky to still be here after 4 crashes.

Re: looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

feeds@yuku.com (pmarinovich) — Thu, 22 May 2008 11:25:00 GMT

You're insufferable, David.

Miles of psuedo-intellectual circular rhetoric to avoid an extremely simple observation: He trashed his own medals in shame of his service, then tried to exploit that same service for political gain. Duh?

Dialogue over.

Re: looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

feeds@yuku.com (That Guy David) — Thu, 22 May 2008 05:50:44 GMT

> Translation: There is no amount of bleeding that can excuse his behavior

OK, it wasn't my intent to misrepresent you, but you're right. My first paraphrase took "didn't bleed enough" as "should have bled more," suggesting there might be some amount of injury Kerry could have sustained that would convince you. So let's try correcting that:

You think about those guys, and you have no problem with people who dodged service...

Re: looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

feeds@yuku.com (Steve Haugh) — Thu, 22 May 2008 05:39:47 GMT

I certainly think so. I hope that crazy mofo doesn't have a driver's license.

Re: looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

feeds@yuku.com (RePob) — Thu, 22 May 2008 04:35:12 GMT

the point is: McCain crashed 4 of the 5 aircraft he flew when he was in the military.

oh it's not as important or significant as Obama not wearing a flag lapel pin ... but if you're gonna tout the McCain's military record, aren't all those twisted heaps of metal he left behind somewhat relevant to the discussion?

Re: looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

feeds@yuku.com (Steve Haugh) — Thu, 22 May 2008 04:24:24 GMT

...whilst screaming "tora tora tora".

Re: looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

feeds@yuku.com (RePob) — Thu, 22 May 2008 04:12:29 GMT

well the original point of the post was that McCain was in possession of five military aircraft in his carreer... and he managed to crash four of them.
(the other one was blown up on the flight deck of a carrier, when a missile was accidentally launched from a parked jet.)

and so now he wants to pilot the US ship of state.

Re: looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

feeds@yuku.com (RhythmStar) — Wed, 21 May 2008 21:17:49 GMT

In terms of tribal history, the same tribe that gave us Vietnam is the same tribe of lying assholes who gave us Iraq, the death squads of San Salvador, Iran-Contra, the Shah of Iran and Osama Bin Laden -- the unholy cabal of militarists, war profiteers and oil interests that Eisenhower warned us about when he coined the phrase "military-industrial complex". I think this particular tribe is anti-American in their loyalty to profits over the interests of the US public and the...

Re: looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

feeds@yuku.com (pmarinovich) — Wed, 21 May 2008 20:39:46 GMT

Hey, I'm missing a post that didn't show up.

Anyway, David, you are clearly cherry picking my words and you do that a lot.

"You're damn right Kerry didn't bleed enough"....Translation: There is no amount of bleeding that can excuse his behavior....NOT "But you get upset with Kerry for not getting injured worse" (which, well I'm at a lost for words at this)

I know I'm beating a dead horse here. But this illustrates why I...

Re: looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

feeds@yuku.com (That Guy David) — Wed, 21 May 2008 19:40:20 GMT

> cherry picking my words

Your words were "you're damn right Kerry didn't bleed enough." I don't think it's an unfair paraphrase. And I'm not having trouble with your concept, I just think it makes no sense.

> When the war became unpopular at home, he turned against the military and joined Fonda.

Funny you should bring up another fabrication from the 2004 election, the fake photo with Jane Fonda. Anyway, you're just wrong...

Re: looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

feeds@yuku.com (pmarinovich) — Wed, 21 May 2008 18:56:28 GMT

Sir Reel wrote:
Pete, I just don't see how putting yourself into a situation like a combat zone in Vietnam could be calculated to give you glory later. Those guys were in danger of death. Really. Every one of them. Whether Kerry was vainglorious or not...he was still a hero in my book for going. All of them were who didn't take glory from bayoneting gook kids or defenseless oldsters.

The danger was real....

Re: looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

feeds@yuku.com (Sir Reel) — Wed, 21 May 2008 17:09:15 GMT

Pete, I just don't see how putting yourself into a situation like a combat zone in Vietnam could be calculated to give you glory later. Those guys were in danger of death. Really. Every one of them. Whether Kerry was vainglorious or not...he was still a hero in my book for going. All of them were who didn't take glory from bayoneting gook kids or defenseless oldsters.

The danger was real. Not like Hillary's snipers.

Re: looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

feeds@yuku.com (That Guy David) — Wed, 21 May 2008 17:06:02 GMT

> I think about those guys when I say, yeah, you're damn right Kerry didn't bleed enough.

You think about those guys, and you have no problem with people who dodged service entirely. But you get upset with Kerry for not getting injured worse, after he volunteered to serve. And you don't seem to have any problem with the guys who contradict each other and themselves when suddenly "remembering" all these problems with Kerry's service, 35 years after the...

Re: looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

feeds@yuku.com (Loren) — Wed, 21 May 2008 17:01:58 GMT

Sure, Kerry was in Vietnam and did see some action...a calculated risk on his part. If you think that makes him a hero, then you looking in the wrong place for kool-aid.

Anybody who served in Nam served his/her country, end of story. To say otherwise is just playing mind games. I can't stand John McCain but for me to deny his service to the country would be ludicrous.

Re: looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

feeds@yuku.com (MP3AA) — Wed, 21 May 2008 16:43:23 GMT

And if you read the contemporary accounts of the events for which he received medals

The ones he threw over the fence or didn't?

Re: looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

feeds@yuku.com (pmarinovich) — Wed, 21 May 2008 16:29:58 GMT

Pitch,

I was directing that to David. He had no problem jumping into those shoes I laid out.

Re: looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

feeds@yuku.com (pmarinovich) — Wed, 21 May 2008 16:28:46 GMT

We're just wired differently. I know a lot of Vietnam vets. I think about those guys when I say, yeah, you're damn right Kerry didn't bleed enough. If Kerry's colleagues and buds want to flaunt his military exploits and medals that's one thing. But, at least to me, shining the light on yourself is a whole new ball game. Bush dodged service. Clinton dodged service. My own father dodged service. Probably half of Canada dodged service, I don't know. Good for them....

Re: looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

feeds@yuku.com (pitchfork) — Wed, 21 May 2008 16:22:03 GMT

who thinks it makes him a "hero"? and who is whining? am i missing something here?

Re: looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

feeds@yuku.com (Sir Reel) — Wed, 21 May 2008 16:22:02 GMT

Anybody who served honorably in Vietnam is a hero in my book. What that did to a lot of those guys makes me tear up. Honestly. I would have been there, but I failed the physical. Although, I admit, I was drafted, didn't try to join.

looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

feeds@yuku.com (RePob) — Wed, 21 May 2008 04:04:38 GMT

Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain

Sir Freddy mentioned McCain's flying record here a few weeks ago (McCain lost 5 planes as a Navy pilot), and so I thought I'd google that, and see what the details were on it.
it turns out there's a website up dedicated to publicizing his less-than-glorious military record.

anyway, like the Colonel says... it's...