Who do you blame for high US gas prices?

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Dirt Kahuna	Who do you blame for high US gas prices?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 4237 (05/19/08 14:51:12) King of the dirt surf guitar Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Tags : None Who do you blame for high US gas prices? (Result) All of the above Bill Clinton and/or Al Gore (this one's for Van) The Bush Administration (for devaluing the dollar) The US Consumer (for driving fuel sucking behemoths) Foreign oil suppliers Big Oil Speculators Last Edited By: Dirt Kahuna 05/20/08 12:36:36. Edited 2 times.
panick88		#1	[-]
Posts: 177 (05/19/08 16:14:29) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	the commodities market plays a big role a think..But US refineries play a huge role as well. and our tanking dollar plays some part, really, I think that forming and implementing US energy policy behind closed doors with no oversight must surely play a role? huh? de-regulating the marketplace , as has been said "privatizing the profit and socializing the risk" (all you damn libertarians a GOP goons are gonna die waiting for the unregulated market to correct itself...or get filthy rich....depending on how you deal with your fellow man, either way I think you suck)
Llarion		#2	[-]
Posts: 17639 (05/19/08 16:37:58) All Adders Are Puffs Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	I blogged on it. My money is mostly on speculators, both in oil futures, and in packaged subprime mortgage loan securities, the tanking of which spurred the downturn of the dollar, which spurred run on oil futures which drive the price up. I think the guys lobbying to have a gas tax moratorium never took freshman macroeconomics. If you artificially lower the price, what happens? Demand rises and supply drops. what happens when the supply drops agains rising demand? Prices go up. I sometimes wonder if a $2.00 additional tax might be the only way to curb the demand side, but it'd be incredibly punutive, even fatal, to the working class. Cheers, Phil Llarion's Lair My Little Bug! - A conscience does not prevent sin. It only prevents you from enjoying it.
ColonelLee		#3	[-]
Posts: 23659 (05/19/08 16:41:07) Discovered Elvis Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	The choices are not complete in this poll. The high price of oil is simple... supply and demand economics. What can we do about worldwide demand? Very little. The population of the world is increasing every second. People from the 3rd world countries are moving into the oil based economy. Buying cars. What can we do about worldwide supply? A lot. Drilling for new oil is restricted in the US. Building new refineries is restricted. We need more drilling. We need more refineries. Who is stopping the drilling and the refineries? A lot of factors but if you wanted to point the finger at one political party it would be the Democrats....who would rather let Chavez drill 50 miles off the US coast but not Americans.
Dirt Kahuna		#4	[-]
Posts: 4238 (05/19/08 17:55:03) King of the dirt surf guitar Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	OK, I guess I missed a couple of choices: 1. China and India and 2. Liberals for stopping the drilling in ANWAR, etc. I do not for one second believe that more drilling is the answer. The ANWAR oil would most likely go to Japan and would make about a 1% change in the price of oil (in 2018, because it would take 10 years to get the oil fields and transport system in place). China and India are part of the problem, but one that we had plenty of time to see coming, but failed to act upon.
Loren		#5	[-]
Posts: 9649 (05/19/08 18:09:48) hey... give peace at least half a chance Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	I read an interesting piece about how the technology exists today to make gasoline out of coal. Clean burning, too. There is an estimated 250 billion tons of coal in buried in the US.
Sir Frederic Wertham Jr		#6	[-]
Posts: 2187 (05/19/08 18:27:36) RBB chief economic consultant Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Ronald Reagan, who trashed all the alternative energy stuff that Carter started. Wherever there's a cop beatin' up a guy, I'll be there. Holding the guy down.
ColonelLee		#7	[-]
Posts: 23660 (05/19/08 18:43:04) Discovered Elvis Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	The price of coal has gone up from around $30 per short ton in 2000 to around $130 per short ton in 2008. Point being...all fuel costs track each other. The only way to get costs down is to increase the supply. Because Coal gasification has it's own mess of environmental problems. And building the plants and implementing it would take as long as other alternatives.
axella		#8	[-]
Posts: 6175 (05/19/08 23:40:45) Jaws was never my scene and I don't like Star Wars. Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	I blame the people who drive around wasting gas by not planning and consolidating their trips, driving bigger cars than they need, and have the attitude that they can use as much gas as they want because it's there, and they can. It's called "The Car Culture". Gasoline is like every other commodity. Supply and demand. If it's in demand, it costs more. If people cut their usage by 25%, prices would be forced to come down to get people buying again. That seems to be the one thing that people refuse to consider when looking at whom to blame - that they can point the finger back at themselves, to some extent. My "Myspace" Profile, and What I'm Bitching About Right Now
ColonelLee		#9	[-]
Posts: 23662 (05/20/08 06:16:40) Discovered Elvis Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	axella wrote: I blame the people who drive around wasting gas by not planning and consolidating their trips, driving bigger cars than they need, and have the attitude that they can use as much gas as they want because it's there, and they can. It's called "The Car Culture". Gasoline is like every other commodity. Supply and demand. If it's in demand, it costs more. If people cut their usage by 25%, prices would be forced to come down to get people buying again. It's like one of those space movies. Where people on the ship are running out of oxygen. Saying "don't breathe, take short breaths....no...no....Joe's breathing too much...kill him". Point being....demand cuts ain't the answer...supply increases are the answer. Because demand cuts only go so far...and quality of life suffers only so much before other ramifications kick in. We can't live the same life...have an economy anywhere like we do...riding on scooters. It just can't happen. Whole large sectors of the economy will drop out. The new focus has to be on increasing the supply. It used to be we had enough buffer to where we could be all high and mighty about it all..."we're not drilling there..we're not building there...we're not doing that". We got no buffer anymore...we got to do whatever to survive.
Dirt Kahuna		#10	[-]
Posts: 4239 (05/20/08 07:01:35) King of the dirt surf guitar Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Wow Kenny, you are really whacked with your "increase the supply" attitude. You elected a big oil president - has the supply increased? WTF?!?!? You can blame congress, but the answer is that more drilling is not the answer. We all knew that gas prices would rise to an uncomfortable level. People are choosing to drive or eat or purchase needed prescription drugs. The American way of life is changing, that is a fact. It is time to figure out a better way for us to manage our personal mode of transportation. The days of driving a massive pickup truck to work because it's "cool" are over for most people. For now I'd advocate lowering the national speed limit to 65 on the highways. I'd close drive-through windows at restaurants and banks. I'd make idling for more than 2 minutes illegal. The big auto companies will eventually offer us a new form of engine that will provide the sort of economy we expect. But until then, it will take a bit of sacrifice from those of us who resent paying $70 to buy a tank of gasoline. I can afford it, but I do not enjoy paying for it.
ColonelLee		#11	[-]
Posts: 23664 (05/20/08 07:10:09) Discovered Elvis Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Dirt Kahuna wrote: Wow Kenny, you are really whacked with your "increase the supply" attitude. You elected a big oil president - has the supply increased? WTF?!?!? You can blame congress, but the answer is that more drilling is not the answer. We all knew that gas prices would rise to an uncomfortable level. People are choosing to drive or eat or purchase needed prescription drugs. The American way of life is changing, that is a fact. It is time to figure out a better way for us to manage our personal mode of transportation. The days of driving a massive pickup truck to work because it's "cool" are over for most people. For now I'd advocate lowering the national speed limit to 65 on the highways. I'd close drive-through windows at restaurants and banks. I'd make idling for more than 2 minutes illegal. The big auto companies will eventually offer us a new form of engine that will provide the sort of economy we expect. But until then, it will take a bit of sacrifice from those of us who resent paying $70 to buy a tank of gasoline. I can afford it, but I do not enjoy paying for it. Your answer is not the answer...not a solution. Your answer is "learning to live with the problem". Like learning to live life as a double amputee or something. We have vehicles now that get great gas mileage. They suck. It's like driving a golf cart on the freeway. What you also miss is that a big part of driving is transporting goods and services. Golf cart world is completely different from the world we now live in. Golf cart world is the 3rd world. A world of greatly lowered living standards. The true answer is increased supply. Either from more of the same source or a new, yet undiscovered source. Man doesn't live in the world of Star Trek without plentiful cheap energy.
MP3AA		#12	[-]
Posts: 12850 (05/20/08 07:30:08) won't get fooled again Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Dilithium crystals are the answer! Gunsite "Well yes, doom and gloom is a result of fear, which itself is a natural consequence of an inability to think for oneself." -Satch-the prophet
axella		#13	[-]
Posts: 6176 (05/20/08 07:56:31) Jaws was never my scene and I don't like Star Wars. Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	My husband filled the car up last night on his way to work. 90 bucks. That's a lot of money, and right now, the AUD is nearly on-par with the USD, so it'd be like you paying $85 or so. Yes, we can afford it (actually, in the new federal budget released the other day, we were deemed to be "rich". Ha ha. We had a laugh at that one). But I resent the hell of out being gouged for $90 like that, and won't fork over a penny more than I need to. I would just about kill to have some kind of light rail system going across town. I'd never drive anywhere if we had trams (trolleys) like they have in Melbourne, San Francisco, and other major cities. When I go down to my daughter's now, I take the train. Doing so not only saves fuel, but it pollutes less, and lets me watch a movie on the ipod on the way down. There are too many people who are able to use public transportation, and simply choose not to. Likewise, there are too many people who give too little though when buying a house, to how convenient it is to public transport links. People tend to buy houses with only driving in mind. Kenny, your analogy is not relevant. No one is going to die by doing less "pleasure cruising". Just because a resource is there and you can afford to use as much as you want of it, is that the right thing to do? Are fossil fuels an infinite resource? Is using a lot of them good for the environment? Companies have always charged what "the market would bear" because, naturally, they want to maximise profits.. If they keep cranking up the prices of fuel and regardless of how much people bitch, they continue to pay it without cutting back on usage, who do you blame? Go ahead, keep showing them that however much they jack up the price, you'll still pay it, and see what keeps happening to the price. My "Myspace" Profile, and What I'm Bitching About Right Now
ColonelLee		#14	[-]
Posts: 23665 (05/20/08 08:38:25) Discovered Elvis Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	axella wrote: Kenny, your analogy is not relevant. No one is going to die by doing less "pleasure cruising". If people in the US only drove when they absolutely had to...demand would change very little... if at all. Because..most people don't just cruise around for no reason. Because....the population of the world and the number of people who have automobiles is increasing every second. There is no better indicator of this than the current price increases we are now experiencing. Gas prices are at an all time high. Yet demand worldwide is increasing. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a_YCEx7do3LQ&refer=home April 21 (Bloomberg) -- Traffic jams in Beijing and humming air conditioners in Dubai are replacing U.S. highways and suburbs as the driver of global oil prices. China, India, Russia and the Middle East for the first time will consume more crude oil than the U.S., burning 20.67 million barrels a day this year, an increase of 4.4 percent, according to the International Energy Agency in Paris. U.S. demand will contract 2 percent to 20.38 million barrels daily, the IEA says. Economic growth of more than 8 percent in China and India, coupled with increasing car ownership among the countries' combined populations of 2.45 billion people, will more than compensate for falling U.S. demand. Oil use worldwide will increase 2 percent this year because of growth in emerging markets, the Paris-based IEA says. ``Does the U.S. matter anymore?'' said Mike Wittner, head of oil research at Societe Generale SA in London. ``Has the U.S. mattered for the last few years? It is debatable. As far as the oil market is concerned, demand growth is going to be continued to be driven by China and the Middle East.''
axella		#15	[-]
Posts: 6176 (05/20/08 09:37:31) Jaws was never my scene and I don't like Star Wars. Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	If people in the US only drove when they absolutely had to...demand would change very little... if at all. I don't agree with that. When I lived there, everyone I know wouldn't have given a second thought to jumping into the car if they felt like a burger or an ice cream, were running low on cigarettes, or if they wanted to visit someone, or simply were bored and wanted to take a ride. People with performance cars like to drive them because they're fun to drive. People who drive status cars like to be seen driving them. When you know the car's in the driveway full of gas, you don't tend to worry as much if you have all the supplies you need for the week because you can always go out and get more anytime you feel like it. You just figure that if you run out of something, you can got to 7-11 or the supermarket. Because..most people don't just cruise around for no reason. Yeah, but a lot of people's reasons for cruising around aren't necessarily good ones. As I said earlier, there a an awful lot of people who could take the train or bus to work and simply choose to drive, instead. If gas went up to $10 a gallon next week, I am willing to bet that people would stop jumping into their cars for frivolous reasons. They'd plan to do all their stops in as few trips as possible, or they'd go broke. My "Myspace" Profile, and What I'm Bitching About Right Now
ColonelLee		#16	[-]
Posts: 23667 (05/20/08 10:20:30) Discovered Elvis Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	axella wrote: If gas went up to $10 a gallon next week, I am willing to bet that people would stop jumping into their cars for frivolous reasons. They'd plan to do all their stops in as few trips as possible, or they'd go broke. The perception that driving is frivolous is not based on reality. Our whole economy is based on driving. We are not an agricultural economy. Far from it. People can not live without driving. Bottom line. If gas hits $10 next week...a lot of people will be outta work. Simple as that. Economic meltdown worldwide. End of civilization as we know it. Because a lot of people will not be able to make it to work. Commodity prices through the roof. Massive instability, death and destruction will ensue. And all these deals about you can't drill in ANWR or anywhere else...you can't build a refinerery here...will disappear. And the USA will have a whole new approach to Iraq. Involving taking over their bullshit government for their oil. And uh......President McCain will be elected. And I will win 6 gallons of gas.
That Guy David		#17	[-]
Posts: 437 (05/20/08 11:27:27) we're using code names now Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	> People can not live without driving. People can live without driving if they live in places that are designed not to require driving, i.e. walkable neighborhoods, public transit available, car sharing programs, etc. There are alternatives, Kenny, and counting on a constant increase in supply isn't one of them. Consumption of oil around the globe is rising, and production won't be able to meet it. Drill ANWR and it won't even make a blip in the rising demand from India and China. When you're headed for a cliff, the thing to do is to change direction, not to just talk about how it would be impossible to hit the brakes.
Dirt Kahuna		#18	[-]
Posts: 4240 (05/20/08 12:37:32) King of the dirt surf guitar Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Hmmm.... here are some new poll results that just came in:
ColonelLee		#19	[-]
Posts: 23672 (05/20/08 14:25:19) Discovered Elvis Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	That Guy David wrote: > People can not live without driving. People can live without driving if they live in places that are designed not to require driving, i.e. walkable neighborhoods, public transit available, car sharing programs, etc. Oh yeah, David. We gonna redesign the entire world Everybody will live in little cubicles in one huge city. Everybody will use public transportation in New Drexler City. The rest of the world will be one giant park. Yeah..it'll take a while to build New Drexler City though. And more than a little bit of oil.
MP3AA		#20	[-]
Posts: 12852 (05/20/08 15:54:16) won't get fooled again Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Communes. We need communes. Gunsite "Well yes, doom and gloom is a result of fear, which itself is a natural consequence of an inability to think for oneself." -Satch-the prophet

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