looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

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RePob	looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...	Lead	[-]
Posts: 3506 (05/21/08 04:04:38) volunteer pundit Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Tags : None Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain Sir Freddy mentioned McCain's flying record here a few weeks ago (McCain lost 5 planes as a Navy pilot), and so I thought I'd google that, and see what the details were on it. it turns out there's a website up dedicated to publicizing his less-than-glorious military record. anyway, like the Colonel says... it's gonna be an interesting election.
Dirt Kahuna		#1	[-]
Posts: 4242 (05/21/08 04:21:57) King of the dirt surf guitar Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Of course, this web page you are showing us is full of unsubstantiated information, some of it true, some of it false. But the voters will believe what they want to believe and they won't make an effort to ferret out the truth. McCain is not a bad guy, but to me he's like Bush "Lite." I want a president that is smarter than me. I want a president with vision. And for me, it's Obama.
ColonelLee		#2	[-]
Posts: 23681 (05/21/08 07:15:50) Discovered Elvis Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	youtube is full of this type of stuff on everybody. So much so....it's kinda washing out. There's still no "dealbreaker" kinda revelation though. Like McCains rumored affair..or some kinda bad Obama deal. The Hillary sniper fire deal was closest. I do feel that the dealbreaker info is coming though. We ain't seen nothing yet.
pmarinovich		#3	[-]
Posts: 941 (05/21/08 10:37:34) a crusty veteran Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	I do feel that the dealbreaker info is coming though. We ain't seen nothing yet. Yes, it certainly is. BTW, Kerry got exactly what he asked for in that swift boat thing. The dude joined the military to emulate his Massachusettes idol John Kennedy. It had nothing to do with serving his country but, rather, padding his resume to run for office. He revisited battle scenes after the danger had passed so he could be filmed carrying a rifle there. The whole deal was staged by the ultimate fake polititician....uh... then he parades himself on stage saluting and saying "reporting for duty!" The ridiculous baffoon.
That Guy David		#4	[-]
Posts: 444 (05/21/08 11:09:07) we're using code names now Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	> It had nothing to do with serving his country Ummm, Kerry did actually serve his country in Viet Nam, and did actually put himself in great personal danger. It's been four years, that's some pretty stale koolaid.
pitchfork		#5	[-]
Posts: 4411 (05/21/08 11:31:52) Southern California beer-chugging champion Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	um, yeah. i'm no kerry fan but the man WAS in vietnam. how can you say with any confidence WHY he served in the military? seems weird to me. so kerry didn't "get what he asked for" - he got reamed by a bunch of conservative vets.
pmarinovich	It's like this.	#6	[-]
Posts: 942 (05/21/08 15:29:35) a crusty veteran Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Well, the part about joining the military to emulate John Kennedy's political career came from Kerry's own mouth. The part about filming walk-thoughs after the fact for future promotions was shown on TV way back -- not just mentioned, but there was film of the crew following Kerry through a Vietnam village, etc. And this was aired after he had already lost the election. I really don't have a dog in this show, so stop yer whinin'. I just hate the pretentious fakes on both sides of the aisle. Sure, Kerry was in Vietnam and did see some action...a calculated risk on his part. If you think that makes him a hero, then you looking in the wrong place for kool-aid.
That Guy David		#7	[-]
Posts: 445 (05/21/08 16:09:00) we're using code names now Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	> If you think that makes him a hero It makes him a decorated military veteran, if that counts for anything in your book. It definitely had something to do with serving his country, and did in fact involve serving his country. And if you read the contemporary accounts of the events for which he received medals, it sure doesn't seem like he pretentiously faked the people shooting at him. So your complaints come down to: 1) he thought military service would be a good prelude to a political career. This doesn't seem too unusual among politicians. And 2) he took some movies of himself at battle scenes, but didn't film during the actual dangerous battles. Not seeing the problem with that one. What you're regurgitating here is really some of the most shameful spin of the 2004 election. Not that Kerry is the most heroic soldier to ever serve, or anything like that, but his service does look pretty impressive compared to finagling a spot in the National Guard and then weaseling out of that. The need to defuse that as a campaign issue is the only reason for constructing the idea that Kerry's service is somehow inauthentic, that he didn't bleed enough. If he hadn't run for president against George W. Bush, it never would have occured to anyone to stoop so low. In fact, some of the Swift Boat Vets for "truth" wrote glowingly of Kerry's service at the time and campaigned with him in earlier races.
Sir Reel		#8	[-]
Posts: 5344 (05/21/08 16:22:02) Large Cock Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Anybody who served honorably in Vietnam is a hero in my book. What that did to a lot of those guys makes me tear up. Honestly. I would have been there, but I failed the physical. Although, I admit, I was drafted, didn't try to join. Their expectations will meet with vacuity
pitchfork		#9	[-]
Posts: 4412 (05/21/08 16:22:03) Southern California beer-chugging champion Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	who thinks it makes him a "hero"? and who is whining? am i missing something here?
pmarinovich		#10	[-]
Posts: 944 (05/21/08 16:28:46) a crusty veteran Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	We're just wired differently. I know a lot of Vietnam vets. I think about those guys when I say, yeah, you're damn right Kerry didn't bleed enough. If Kerry's colleagues and buds want to flaunt his military exploits and medals that's one thing. But, at least to me, shining the light on yourself is a whole new ball game. Bush dodged service. Clinton dodged service. My own father dodged service. Probably half of Canada dodged service, I don't know. Good for them. I've got no problem with any of that. It's the premeditated self glorification that bothers me. I really don't care if it's not "too unusual among politicians." I don't like it. It seems disrespectful to the dead -- to me. Maybe you don't see it that way.
pmarinovich		#11	[-]
Posts: 945 (05/21/08 16:29:58) a crusty veteran Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Pitch, I was directing that to David. He had no problem jumping into those shoes I laid out.
MP3AA		#12	[-]
Posts: 12853 (05/21/08 16:43:23) won't get fooled again Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	And if you read the contemporary accounts of the events for which he received medals The ones he threw over the fence or didn't? Gunsite "Well yes, doom and gloom is a result of fear, which itself is a natural consequence of an inability to think for oneself." -Satch-the prophet
Loren		#13	[-]
Posts: 9656 (05/21/08 17:01:58) hey... give peace at least half a chance Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Sure, Kerry was in Vietnam and did see some action...a calculated risk on his part. If you think that makes him a hero, then you looking in the wrong place for kool-aid. Anybody who served in Nam served his/her country, end of story. To say otherwise is just playing mind games. I can't stand John McCain but for me to deny his service to the country would be ludicrous. Last Edited By: Loren 05/21/08 17:05:29. Edited 1 times.
That Guy David		#14	[-]
Posts: 446 (05/21/08 17:06:02) we're using code names now Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	> I think about those guys when I say, yeah, you're damn right Kerry didn't bleed enough. You think about those guys, and you have no problem with people who dodged service entirely. But you get upset with Kerry for not getting injured worse, after he volunteered to serve. And you don't seem to have any problem with the guys who contradict each other and themselves when suddenly "remembering" all these problems with Kerry's service, 35 years after the fact. I'm not really seeing how it's Kerry who's disrespectful to the dead. Like I said, it's a shameful artifact of the 2004 campaign that anyone thinks this way about Kerry. You can keep trying to make sense out of it, but you're not doing too well so far.
Sir Reel		#15	[-]
Posts: 5345 (05/21/08 17:09:15) Large Cock Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Pete, I just don't see how putting yourself into a situation like a combat zone in Vietnam could be calculated to give you glory later. Those guys were in danger of death. Really. Every one of them. Whether Kerry was vainglorious or not...he was still a hero in my book for going. All of them were who didn't take glory from bayoneting gook kids or defenseless oldsters. The danger was real. Not like Hillary's snipers. Their expectations will meet with vacuity
pmarinovich		#16	[-]
Posts: 946 (05/21/08 18:56:28) a crusty veteran Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Sir Reel wrote: Pete, I just don't see how putting yourself into a situation like a combat zone in Vietnam could be calculated to give you glory later. Those guys were in danger of death. Really. Every one of them. Whether Kerry was vainglorious or not...he was still a hero in my book for going. All of them were who didn't take glory from bayoneting gook kids or defenseless oldsters. The danger was real. Not like Hillary's snipers. Ambitious people can do the darndest things. They'll face real snipers and imaginary ones. Heh. But you get upset with Kerry for not getting injured worse Well, thanks for cherry picking my words instead of trying to grasp a concept. Like I said. Kerry got exactly what he asked for. He planned to use the war as a political stepping stone. Some people would say that's fine. Churchill did it, too. Whatever. When the war became unpopular at home, he turned against the military and joined Fonda. If the political climate in the US had been prowar, would he have done that? Fast forward: the Democratic party tells candidate Kerry that the country needs a war hero, suddenly he's calling himself a war hero. There's another "h" word that I think fits a little better here. I'm a simple guy. I think you can't have it both ways. I'd be a lousy politician.
That Guy David		#17	[-]
Posts: 447 (05/21/08 19:40:20) we're using code names now Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	> cherry picking my words Your words were "you're damn right Kerry didn't bleed enough." I don't think it's an unfair paraphrase. And I'm not having trouble with your concept, I just think it makes no sense. > When the war became unpopular at home, he turned against the military and joined Fonda. Funny you should bring up another fabrication from the 2004 election, the fake photo with Jane Fonda. Anyway, you're just wrong on facts here. Kerry, unlike many Vietnam war opponents, was careful to place blame on the leadership rather than the military. And public opinion had already turned against the war before Kerry first saw combat. > suddenly he's calling himself a war hero. Any evidence that he ever hid from his service record or from his antiwar activities? I don't there's any conflict there that he needs to have both ways.
pmarinovich		#18	[-]
Posts: 950 (05/21/08 20:39:46) a crusty veteran Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	Hey, I'm missing a post that didn't show up. Anyway, David, you are clearly cherry picking my words and you do that a lot. "You're damn right Kerry didn't bleed enough"....Translation: There is no amount of bleeding that can excuse his behavior....NOT "But you get upset with Kerry for not getting injured worse" (which, well I'm at a lost for words at this) I know I'm beating a dead horse here. But this illustrates why I get frustrated and stop posting for months at a time. Folk here can't just share perspectives or world views. Everyone gets labeled as being on one side of the aisle or the other. Then you better cross every "T" and dot every "i" and be sure to link to everything. There is no mutual respect or joy of banter. I have drunk my share of kool-aid in the past, but this is not the case here. Regarding the fake photo: you mentioned it, not me. I don't think you need to be in the same photo to be on the same team. The fake photo was as unfortunate as the embellished smoke plumes of Israeli bombing.
RhythmStar		#19	[-]
Posts: 2178 (05/21/08 21:17:49) House is in the house! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	In terms of tribal history, the same tribe that gave us Vietnam is the same tribe of lying assholes who gave us Iraq, the death squads of San Salvador, Iran-Contra, the Shah of Iran and Osama Bin Laden -- the unholy cabal of militarists, war profiteers and oil interests that Eisenhower warned us about when he coined the phrase "military-industrial complex". I think this particular tribe is anti-American in their loyalty to profits over the interests of the US public and the Constitution, but I have to admit that they have done an excellent job of getting entire generations of gullible Americans to confuse "patriotism" with "company shill". It's really a pitiful sight, watching misinformed but well-meaning citizens vote themselves into the poorhouse so that Exxon, Halliburton and AIPAC can get what they want. It would be funny if it were not so tragic. I sure hope the public has finally had enough pain the throw the bums out, even if they don't have the balls to prosecute. RS
RePob		#20	[-]
Posts: 3507 (05/22/08 04:12:29) volunteer pundit Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Report Post	well the original point of the post was that McCain was in possession of five military aircraft in his carreer... and he managed to crash four of them. (the other one was blown up on the flight deck of a carrier, when a missile was accidentally launched from a parked jet.) and so now he wants to pilot the US ship of state.

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looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

looks like there'll be some payback for the Swift Boat thing...

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